tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 26, 2015 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. hillary clinton has a rival for the presidency, a democratic rival. senator bernie sanders of vermont who declared his candidacy have a chance, does a declared socialist have a chance in the country when less than one of five of us call ourselves an economic liberal. all that said i think this man is going to enjoy that run for president because that one in five figure includes a heck of a number of democratic primary caucus voters to and a number want to see hillary clinton pulled leftward on economic issues and three, americans tend to root for the underdog and, four, it's the only game in town. here's senator sanders announcing his campaign up in burlington, vermont. >> today with your support and the support of millions of people throughout our country, we begin a political revolution to transform our country economically, politically,
socially and environmentally. today we stand here and say loudly and clearly enough is enough. this great nation and its government belong to all of the people and not to a handful of billion airs. >> steve kornacki is the host of "up" here on msnbc. what a crowd there on lake champlain. >> going to be a hell of a campaign for us to cover. steve kornacki, thanks for covering things from burlington. i love burlington. more from senator sanders eannouncement speed? >> there's something profoundly wrong with the 101/10 of 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%. this grotesque level of inequality is immoral. it is bad economics.
it is unsustainable. wall street can not continue to be an island unto itself, gambling trillions in risky financial instruments while expecting the public to bail it out. if a bank is too big to fail, that bank is too big to exist. >> i'm joined now by the "globe" editorial director for the huffington post howard fineman and the former chair of the republican national committee michael steele. howard, the last part of it grabbed me, too big to fail, too big to exist. that's something that people can say whether it's glass/steagall, whatever it is, something has to be done structurally about the american economy to make us safe. >> chris, whatever the labels might be on bernie sanders. >> calls himself a socialist. >> whatever people identify with or call themselves, a lot of things that he talked about today, raising the minimum wage, a jobs program, increased taxes on the wealthiest americans, billionaires paying their fair share, breaking up the big the caucus-goer the most committed activist on the democratic side, very liberal constituency, a state where hillary clinton had plenty of problems in 2008 and she game in third place behind barack obama and john edwards and from bernie sanders' standpoint a monumental challenge the possibility of maybe somehow some way beating hillary clinton but i think more realistically, if you want to talk about his prospects and what he can do here, i think
he's potentially better positioned than any of the other democrats lined up to run against hillary clinton to make her sweat and give her headaches. it would start in iowa, an electorate, any electorate out there outside vermont that is most conducive to what bernie sanders has to offer i'd say it's the caucus electorate in iowa. where do you go after iowa, the next door state for bernie sanders of new hampshire so the first two states do set up pretty well for him. >> going to be a hell of a campaign for us to cover. steve kornacki, thanks for covering things from burlington. i love burlington. more from senator sanders eannouncement speed? >> there's something profoundly wrong with the 101/10 of 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%. this grotesque level of inequality is immoral. it is bad economics. it is unsustainable. wall street can not continue to be an island unto itself, gambling trillions in risky financial instruments while expecting the public to bail it out. if a bank is too big to fail, that bank is too big to exist. >> i'm joined now by the "globe" editorial director for the huffington post howard fineman and the former chair of the republican national committee michael steele. howard, the last part of it grabbed me, too big to fail, too big to exist. that's something that people can say whether it's glass/steagall,
whatever it is, something has to be done structurally about the american economy to make us safe. >> chris, whatever the labels might be on bernie sanders. >> calls himself a socialist. >> whatever people identify with or call themselves, a lot of things that he talked about today, raising the minimum wage, a jobs program, increased taxes on the wealthiest americans, billionaires paying their fair share, breaking up the big banks, these are all things that are not just on the democratic left. these are mainstream at least democratic stands and in many ways mainstream american stands. >> how do you explain only 19% of the people say they are liberals on economic matters? >> the labels don't matter. >> the what labels don't matter? >> they don't matter. here's the problem. hillary clinton probably, and i know she now will say that she agrees, not with the fervor or the brooklyn accent on bernie but she would be able to agree on most everything that he said there, but she doesn't have the credibility to say it convincingly.
>> well, he means it. >> he means it. she's tiptoeing to the left. she's going to cover most of these positions to some extent, okay? >> yeah. >> she will run alongside on most of these issues but will be all about authenticity. who believes it and who has the record. he says he won't run a negative campaign. he said that also in his speech we we were watching earlier. >> what does that mean? >> that means he won't run a negative ad but lots of other people will, including some republicans who wouldn't mind making some mischief in this campaign. >> there's one right here. michael, what do you make -- howard is challenging the label thing. people say progressive with pride these days. why don't they say liberal when they talk about their own economic attitude? >> that's a good point. something that bernie sanders is going to force democrats to deal with inside the party. we had the same thing on the right. i mean, i was sitting there -- >> who is your bernie sanders? >> you've got newt gingrich. you've got santorum. you've got strong conservatives,
ted cruz, who believe very fervently in the cause and that they can rally the base around strong conservative principles just like we saw bernie sanders with the very impressive crowd real his base around the liberal progressive agenda. >> i think burlington is great, like berkeley back east. it's great. it's not representative of the burbs where people vote republican, and i do think there's an excitement to this guy. i think he has a bit of the old romance. >> he's got the romance, but at the end of the day i think howard is right. he's going to have to deal with a hillary clinton who is going to try to -- >> she won't go after him. >> she doesn't need to go after him. >> she will say she will agree with him. >> bernie, you know, we agree on many, many things. my only point about the labels is if you ask americans individually do you want a jobs program for infrastructure? heck, you've talked about jobs -- >> i'm huge on this stuff. >> you're with bernie on that. talk about suspicion about the trade bill, millions of americans are worry about that. talk about breaking up the big banks.
my somers point if you take these one at a time, bernie sanders is not some charming grumpy crank on the shores of lake champlain with ben and jerry clapping. they were there, by the way. plus bill mckibbon, the ultimate environmentalist. a lot of the things he's saying are meat and potatoes, sensible, old-fashioned american sense. that's all i'm saying. >> if you're hillary clinton and you're watching that today, are you happy with that performance? does it make you happy or nervous? >> i think it makes her a little bit nervous. makes her a little bit nervous because to howard's point she has to figure out how to box herself in such a way that she pulls some that have energy. >> let's play "hardball." >> but without going after him -- >> can i play "hardball." what percentage would she be scared of him getting? good for her if he gets 25% and she gets 75% in new hampshire? is it good for her that he gets 35% or 45%? at what point does it ring the bell and say there's something wrong with hillary because she's not this guy? >> let's play "hardball."
>> what percentage? >> okay. if she's wins iowa and new hampshire, it's over. >> it's over. >> even if he gets 45? >> even if he gets 45. >> but i -- >> doesn't matter how well he does. >> i could see a scenario to cornacki's point where hillary clinton could find herself on the ropes in a place like iowa very early. >> who picks up the pieces if she lose -- if she loses new hampshire to him? >> oh, i think bernie -- >> nobody to pick up the pieces? >> it falls back to her, but i'm just saying the possibility. >> right now he's at 15% and she's at 60%. >> by the way, mccarthy who is in the low teens in january of '68. >> this was the vietnam war. >> history doesn't repeat itself. >> no. >> howard fineman with a definitive answer. wow, you're passionate. >> he's looking forward to this race. >> we want a fight. that's what we all want. michael steele, thank you. coming up, we've got one in iraq. iraq is launching a major military operation to fight back against isis but the obama administration seems less than confident that they can do the job. defense secretary ash carter said iraqi troops lost the key
city of ramadi because though showed no will to fight. those are fighting words and speaking of fighting isis, the republicans have a strategy called blame obama but don't count the troops. we'll get to that in the roundtable tonight and what's going on in houston while the fourth largest city is under water and california in drought? what's the science behind here and finally why i think the presidential campaign of senator bernie sanders is something to look forward to. you bet. this is "hardball," the place for politics. holy macaroni !! this little thingamajig is some kind of super, duper, special gain. if my nose had thumbs, i'm pretty sure they'd be up right now. ♪ your nose has no thumbs! ♪ gain flings with 50% more scent. at book club they were asking me what you're doing now, janice. blogging. your blog is just pictures of you in the mirror.
it's called a fashion blog todd. well, i've been helping people save money with progressive's discounts. flo, can you get janice a job? [ laughs ] you should've stuck to softball! i was so much better at softball than janice, dad. where's your wife, todd? vacation. discounts like homeowners' multi-policy -- i got a discount on this ham. i've got the meat sweats. this is good ham, diane. paperless discounts -- give it a rest, flo. all: yeah, flo, give it a rest. the declaration today by bernie sanders is the first in a flurry of presidential races set to launch. tomorrow rick santorum gets on the race and then it's former governor george pataki and martin o'malley will launch his game, next monday is lindsey graham's tune and next thursday, june 4, rick perry jumps in. we'll be right back.
welcome back to "hardball." iraqi security forces today launched an offensive to drive isis from the anbar province and retake ramadi which isis captured early this month. as the capital of anbar the fall of ramadi was a major setback in the war against isis and it's led to a blame game. u.s. officials told nbc news last week that the defeat was due to baghdad's, quote, total neglect of ramadi, and on sunday secretary of defense ashton carthy blamed the iraqi military for cutting and running. >> the iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. they were not outnumbered. in fact, they vastly outnumbered the opposing force, and yet they failed to fight. they withdrew from the site, and that says to me, and i think to most of us, that we have an issue with the will of the iraqis to fight isil and defend themselves.
>> but in a bbc interview later that day iraq's prime minister says that his forces would retake ramadi within days and he pushed back against secretary carter. >> i'm surprised why he said that. i mean, he was very supportive of iraq. i'm sure as he was fed with the wrong information. >> well, the "wall street journal" also points out today that the isis takeover of ramadi showed a kind of tactical sophistication that we haven't yet seen from the militant group. it indicates how islamic state commanders had a complex battle plan that outwitted a greater force of iraq i troops and they turned out dozens of weapons by capturing dozens of u.s. military armored vehiclesy is tined to be impervious to small arms fire equal to the force of the oklahoma city bombing. let's go to richard engel. these two sides are asymmetric.
one side driving suicide bombers across the lines and breaking the alliance of the iraqi forces and on the iraqi side i've got to wonder what are they fighting for, the motive and the patriotic drive for someone to give up their life or even risk it in such a battle if they don't really have a country behind it? is there an iraq? is there such a place? >> by the day and the week we're seeing iraq disintegrate. there isn't really a sense of iraq anymore. it feels much more of kurdistan in the north, a failed sunni state in the center and an increasingly shiite and increasingly iran-dominated south that starts in baghdad. so if you are an army and you are supposed to be representing the united iraq, united iraq that increasingly looks like a memory, then i think you're -- you're not finding the will to fight.
>> if you're an iraqi military commander, halfway up the ranks, a major or whatever, and i said to your troops, hold the line. don't give up. they are coming at us, don't give. what is your innocent sniff what do you say to these guys? remember the alamo? what do you say to these people? i'm dead serious. most people would say i'm getting the hell out of here. gave me the uniform and a monthly salary and i'm not going to die you this. >> not always do they give you the uniform or give you the monthly salary. once the u.s. troops left iraq the iraqi military became incredibly corrupt. the iraqi state became synonymous with nepotism, with false rosters and with -- in which soldiers' names were put on the rosters and they were told by the commanding officers don't come in but give me half your salary. we spoke to many mid-level police officers and army officers who had been purged from their jobs because they weren't in favor with the right shiite group, so if you are working for an institution that
steals from you, that is corrupt on every level, that doesn't supply you with the equipment that you need in a timely basis, yeah, you're absolutely right, you're not going to lay down your life for it. you're not going to go up against a group like isis which is incredibly dedicated and incredibly willing to die knowing that if they catch you you'll be executed in the most horrific way, maybe set on fire, maybe put into a big execution pitted, that you are going to die and die badly, so, yes, the corruption and the rot in the iraqi army combined with a very motivated adversary is not a favorable one for the iraqi government right now. >> as always, thank you, richard engel. you are the best. >> oh, take. >> you i'm joined now by richard clarke, former national coordinator and author of the new book "pinnacle event" and ian bremer joins us as well and author of "superpower." listening to what richard engel
said, imagine embedding american troops as bad as it is and one of our guys kids picked up and they burn him alive and do this for a couple of weeks and they do their dance of horror and humiliate the guy before that and what do we do then? i don't know why we want to slip into this role. people like it's jeb bush this time talking that. your thoughts? >> chris, i think we have to decide how important is it that we stop isis? i don't think we've done that. i don't think we've had that national conversation, and then we have to decide how much are we willing to do to stop isis, and we haven't had that national conversation. i can imagine an answer that says, yeah, we really do want to stop them. we don't want another afghanistan where people can plot attacks against the united states. that's -- that's a logical position, and if you believe that, then maybe you should do more, and there are things you
can do more than we're doing. you can arm the kurds. you can arm the sunni militia. a lot of these guys didn't have any arms which is one of the reasons they fled there. they ran out of ammunition. you can provide them close air support which we weren't doing so there are things more short of lindsey graham's invasion and return to iraq. >> ian, your thoughts about what the united states could do if it decided it was getting worth getting killed for, worth putting guys close to the action. you start bringing guys with close air support somebody is going to get shot down. if you do any of that, you'll get picked off, part of the reality of life? >> the one consistency is that we overreact when something happens to us, whether it's a couple of americans showing up with ebola while we're not paying attention to it or two americans getting their heads chopped off by isis and i'm not trying to minimize these issues, but i think a lot of americans look at the trillions of dollars spent after 9/11 after afghanistan and iraq want out.
i think the obama administration responded very strongly to that and trying everything possible stick with the process which absolutely not destroy the isis there. we say we want to destroy it but nothing at any point that indicates that we will do it. >> listen to the president's interview. listen to the word we and wonder who he is talking about, last week. president obama reacted said, quote, i don't think we're losing. we'll have to ramp up but not just training but also commitment and we better get sunni tribes more activated than they currently have been. we've eight months into what we already anticipated to a multi-year campaign. senator john mccain slammed the president's approach on "meet the press" on sunday. no surprise there. here he is. >> we need forward air controllers. we need special forces. we need to have more of those kinds of raids that we're so
successful into syria. we need to have a strategy. there is no strategy, and anybody that says that there is, i'd like to hear what it is because it certainly apparent now. >> well, that was on "face the nation," rich. my question to you and ian who is we. if we is the iraqi army, we ain't nothing because the iraqi army is going to cut and run. we've gone over this with richard engel now in the field. who is the we? are we the jordanian air force, are we the kurds, the sunni militias or the sunni liberation front over in syria? i don't think we have a front against isis, do we? >> well, we have in a few battles to date, we have. but it's not a consistent front. the we should be the sunni militia, the shia mill sharks the iraqi national army and the u.s. military and our gulf gcc partners. where is their skin in the game? >> who is the red arm? >> richard, who is the red army in this in 1942 and '43 terms, who is the red army pushing against isis?
who is the one they used to be afraid of. >> when you used to say we to my mom she used to say do you have a rat in your mockett in the united states air force is providing significant support in iraq and special forces very significant. you absolutely saw them and that was a win when you get the effective cfo of isis and getting data and network capabilities and trying to shut down and that's a containment strategy. there is no we for destroying isis and the american people, people like hillary clinton as well, even jeb bush, say very clearly if the saudis, if the gcc are not going to stand up and fight to destroy iraq, to destroy isis in iraq and no one is going to do it in syria, it's a really hard argument for them to put to the american people for the 2016 presidential
election and if you're on the ground in iraq you see that the conversation that richard clarke is calling for right now which is starting to happen has americans all over the map, not the kind of commitment that are going to make them feel like they have got the support for the long term. >> but to have that conversation we need to have somebody paint for us a picture of what happens and what's the cost to us if we do nothing, and we don't -- the president hasn't done that. the secretary of defense hasn't done that. somebody shut put on a map, put on a speech what it would look like if these guys win and they set up a terrorist sanctuary nation and they take baghdad and they hold on to these other four or five cities that they have indefinitely. what's the cost to us? no one has laid that out. >> why not lay out the cost the other way like churchill did in world war ii. we just lost one but we'll win again. it's going to be tough before it gets better. these are real defeats, have to talk about real defeats like ramadi and then be real about
the cost of victory. >> and how much are we willing to pay for it? how much are we willing to pay for it? >> richard is saying what's the cost of doing nothing? no one is suggesting doing nothing. no one in the political system is saying we'll completely withdraw. it's a question of what is going to be the impact of allowing isis to persist and not truly destroying them as opposed to what is the cost of actually trying to really defeat them on the ground, and that is the conversation that's a much more real one that we need to really have and both sides are straw manning too much? >> it's not a straw man. we need to understand more of what we need to do. we are doing something, but what more do we need to do and why? why? >> okay. why is a good one and then, of course, recognize that some guys are going to get caught and tortured and burned alive and humiliated before the world and then they will be killed. we have to face that eventuality because it's going to come. richard clarke, thank you so much and ian bremer, thank you so much.
a rather grim description of a war that doesn't seem at this point winnable. texas has been devastated by devastating flooding. houston, the fourth largest city, is under water and stark contrast to the severe drought going on in california. is there a climate aspect to all of this? and is it somehow related? this is "hardball," the place for politics. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain
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i assured governor abbott that he could count on the help of the federal government. we have fema personnel already on the ground. they are coordinating with texas emergency management authorities, and i will anticipate that there will be some significant requests made to washington. >> welcome back to "hardball." there are now more than ten confirmed deaths from that 500-year flood that head texas and oklahoma.
the search is still on for at least a dozen of missing residents in wemberley, texas and authorities are searching for one family whose cabin was swept away by the blanco river and overnight in southwest houston, about 11 inches of rain fell in just six hours. mention that. joining me now is u.s. congresswoman sheila jackson lee from houston. is the federal government serving the people down there in this drastic situation as well as they should? >> well, first of all, let me express my sympathy to the many who have lost their lives throughout the state of texas and in my own district they recovered a body and they are missing others that they are looking for. i was standing by as they recovered the fire fighters' inflated boat that was trying to rescues persons and they were able to save two fire fighters but they are looking for others. let me just say the federal government is obviously the umbrella on the rainy day, and it is an umbrella day today in houston and all over the state
of texas. what i think the federal government can do is what they have done, at least in an immediate and quick response, to be able to get help here for those who need recovery and if you will rehabilitation, but one thing that we need from the federal government and we in congress need to do is to rebuild our infrastructure and to make sure that all of these unique situations, like houston is a bayou city, we're prout of it, but as i have been knock on doors in my district, been talking to people in mud and looking in homes that had water almost midway up their walls, surging into their homes, it is clear that we need to be able to have a set of plans and future investment so that we can enjoy our bayous but don't have them do what they did over the last 12 hours. clearly we need to look at a futuristic plan of infrastructure, but right now most people are looking for homes. they are looking for clothing. they are looking for their cars
to be restored. all of these cars were destroyed in this particular area that i was in near the white oak bayou. everyone's car had been covered by water that was way over the hood of the car so the federal government has to stand ready, and i did write and join with the city and government officials to the president to ask for a natural disaster declaration, particularly for houston, to be able to help these people. >> thanks so much. u.s. congresswoman sheila jackson lee. according to the national climate assessment climate change contributes to harsh weather continues like the flooding in texas and the drought in california happening right now. experts predict changing extremes in precipitation are projected across all seasons, including higher like hoods of both increasing heavy rain and snow events and more intense droughts all at the same time. joining me now is the director of the earth institute at columbia institute dr. jeffrey sax. when you look at the two situations, i'm going to free flow it in terms of information.
what do you see in terms of the terrible drought, the terrible flooding down there? is it something that's moved across the specific when it was supposed to drop historically in california and is now dropping somewhere else? how do you see it? >> well, there's a lot of disruption around the world. this is going to be the hottest year on record. there are massive heat waves. there are droughts. there are floods. can i tell you i just spoke with the scientists around columbia university. they say they can't put all the pieces of this puzzle together. one thing is this is weather. in other words, this is just an extraordinary occurrence of the jet stream dipping south, but they also point out that there are underlying factors like the very warm waters of the gulf of mexico which have brought a lot of very humid air and that collides with the colder air brought by the jet stream and that's what gives these massive storms.
there's just been so many strange patterns with the patterns of the jet stream itself. we had a hugely cold winter in the northeast because of that whereas the rest of the world was baking, and so, chris, you know, it remains true that an individual event you can't call it, but what you can say is there's a lot of disruption going on. the underlying warming of the sea surface and the land, the drying of the soils where farmers are trying to grow crops, all of this means that we're disrupting a lot of activity and then we're seeing more tragedies like the one we saw in the last couple of days in texas. >> well, you know, just looking at it anecdotally, i look at the incredible snowfall in the northeast this year. i mean, they had igloos where parking spaces whether supposed to be, you parked your car in an igloo and fought for it and then katrina. such biblical weather lately. you're waiting for the snakes and rats to arrive. when you put it all together, i
forgot my biblical history, but when you put it all together, do you see anything going on on planet? used to be worried about august and a lot of thunderstorms at 4:30 in the afternoon in d.c., pretty predictable, and in the winter a few inches of snow but not the huge dumps of snow. in texas they had 11 inches in six hours. i mean, excuse me. this is unusual. >> chris, absolutely. we're pushing the planet into dangerous territory so when katrina or when superstorm sandy head us in new england and in the northeast, the sea level is already higher than it was a century ago so the flooding surge was much later. the water off the coast of the northeast was warmer and containing a lot more warmer. the gulf of mexico is a lot warmer right now containing a lot more moisture. so, yes, we're creating
conditions for disruption, and there's no doubt that the underlying patterns in the planet, the temperature especially, but also the precipitation patterns, even the ocean circulation patterns are changing now. you can't figure it out exactly because we're seeing it for the first time, but we're pushing and making big threats and this is -- this tells us hold back a little bit. let's be careful before we push things into completely unlivable seasons. >> i have to tell you because you're used to seeing denial in your fair, i was in california this weekend for a wedding and commencement exercise and i met two reasonably intelligent men who really denied there's a drought going on in florida so denial is not just a river in egypt. anyway, thank you. >> great to be with you. >> up next, a huge victory for marriage equality in i'll. how long can republicans in this
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same-sex marriage by popular election. 62% of voters over there approved of the measure legalizing same-sex marriage, and the referendum drew 61% of ireland's 3.2 million eligible voters out to the polls. over here in the united states, hillary clinton offered her congratulations of support by tweeting well done, ireland. making it clear where she stands on marriage equality. but what about the republicans? according to a gallup poll, a record 60% now support same-sex marriage, 60% of the overall population which is up from 55 from just last year and up from 37% a decade ago, yet the 2016 gop candidates are nowhere near where the american people are on this. let's watch. >> this week i introduced in the united states senate a constitutional amendment to preserve the authority of the states to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman. >> this whole debate about the definition of marriage i remind everyone that marriage as an institution existed before government itself, that the institution of marriage is one
man and one woman existed before our laws existed. >> in wisconsin and other places across the country, marriage is defined between one man and one woman. >> i believe in traditional woman, between a man and a woman. >> i've always wondered why they have to say one man and one woman. something about mormonism from the last election. support for same-sex marriage gaining momentum in this country and around the world at a high rate of speed, can the gop still get away with saying no to marriage equality? the roundtable tonight, should be fascinating, michelle bernard president of the bernard center for women, jonathan cape hart opinion writer with the "washington post" and susan page is washington bureau chief with "usa today." susan, i want to start with you. you and i are not the same age but note same history very much. this country has been warp speed. ireland, what do the republicans do now that they are behind ireland the only legalized sexual behavior recently in. >> generation, 1993 that ireland repealed anti-homosexual laws there, so in lace than a
generation they have gone from criminalizing homosexuality to accepting by popular vote. >> when is the gop going to make this leap? >> a big turnout, an issue that energized people in ireland and especially young people. what a warning sign that is for republicans here. we know a majority of republicans under 30 support same-sex marriage. >> where's the log cabin on this baby, jonathan? log cabin, republican gay people and have formed together and they somehow have to keep rationalizing their presence in the republican party? >> only so much log cabin republicans can do. the candidates themselves have to come around on this issue. >> who will do it first? >> i don't know. >> none of them are. 3,000 people running for the republican nomination and not one of them has broken the seals on this thing. >> we've gone through the crazy exercise of watching them contort yourself of would you attend a same-sex marriage of a loved one and gone from --
>> would you go to the reception? rehearsal dinner in. >> not going -- you know what, chris, something else to keep in mind here. ireland is just the second european example of an example for republicans on what to do on this issue. 61% of irish people voted to legalize same-sex marriage. david cameron, the british prime minister, who made this an issue in the uk and everyone, all of his torry supporters said you've ruined our party and you've ruined us and going to ruin us in the general election. he just won, no coalition, nothing. >> but i think the dichotomies you draw are interesting. one of candidates said he would go to the same but not the reception. didn't want to be there when the dancing started. >> i think it was scott walker. >> too weird. >> you're an erstwhile republican, aren't you? never figured out where you stand?
>> i think what's happened in ireland is fantastic. i'm so glad that they did it and so glad that they are sort of catching up with the times. the big question will be that i've seen the vote that we saw in ireland over the weekend described as cultural catholicism so people who want to go to funerals go, to baptisms but don't necessarily go to church every sunday. i want to see if that's going to happen here in the united states, particularly within the republican party. i mean, ireland was behind. in 1971 it was still illegal -- contraception was illegal. >> yeah. >> they have cat up with the times on that and caught up with the times on gay marriage and hopefully today's republican party will do the same. >> i think they are probably waiting for the supreme court. >> that's -- i have said that. >> look, i've said it since day one that the big strategy is if they go to the states -- it helps everyone running on the republican ticket. no one needs their own stance. all they have to do is say it's the law of the land and i'm
recognizing the law of the land. >> there are a lot of republicans very fiercely opposed to same-sex marriage and find it immoral, abomination and will not let candidates off the hook saying the supreme court decided. >> i don't think the republican party is big on accepting supreme court rules. >> anyone who wants to be serious candidate -- >> ben carson has not caught up with these guys. >> you speak wisely. the roundtable is staying with us. isis, all the republicans have the same strategy, blame obama but don't get into a fight yourself. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] take zzzquil and sleep like... the kids went to nana's house... for the whole
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protect what matters. call the number on your screen or visit the website to learn more. well, bill and hillary clinton have made their first joint appearance since the former secretary of state launched her presidential campaign. they marched together in yesterday's memorial day parade in their adopted hometown of chappaqua, new york, something they have done virtually every year since they moved there. largely steered clear of her talking about her presidential career and instead put the focus on the military men and women who fight and die for our country. we'll be right back after this.
isis says they want to go back and reject modernity, well, i think we should help them. we ought to bomb them back to the stone age. >> if these folks want to bring back a seventh century version of islam, then my recommendation is let's load our bombers up and bomb them back to the seventh century. >> i would hit them so hard and so fast that they wouldn't know what happened. >> you seen the movie "taken," liam neeson? he has a line. what our strategy should be. we will look for you, we will find you, and we will kill you. >> welcome back to "hardball." i would not hold a democratic convention next year. simply show that over and over again to the american people and they'll make the right decision. there's bravado about how the republican field wants to confront isis.
do they want to fight or just look like they want to fight? like the classic movie line, hold me back, boys, where the guys want to look tough but just for show. it's right there in the "lion king." let's watch this classic scene. >> let me at them, let me at them. here, hold me back. >> okay. >> let me at them. let me at them. okay. i think you're missing the basic point here. >> so true as "the new york times" noted in their front page story over the weekend, "most of the republicans are reluctant and evasive when to comes to laying out detailed plans to fight isis preferring to criticize president obama's war strategy." in other words, hold me back, boys. we're back with michelle, jonathan, susan in that order.
nobody wants to sign an authorization to use military force. boehner doesn't want to do it, the speaker of the house. they don't want their hands on it because i'm guessing they know the american people want to be tough. >> yes. >> because it makes us feel stronger, of course, when we see the horror in isis. nobody wants troops in fight. >> they know the american people are war weary. anyone who comes out right away and says i want to put, you know, 10,000 troops, 10,000 boots on the ground or whatever the number might be becomes a war precedent immediately. to me, it looks like hillary and obama in 2008 on the republican side and makes me wonder since lindsey graham is the only person actually giving us a strategy, and there's no -- >> what good is the strategy, jonathan, once they grab one of our guys? and they say we're going to burn them alive on national television? national television in two weeks. let them think about it while we think about it. okay. that's horrible. what's the next step? are we going to stand for that? then we'll escalate to the next level. the american people -- i will go crazy. i want to knee palm them. the problem with that is that's an impulse.
most of the people under isis control are the same people that were living there people, happened to get stuck in the area they control in syria or iraq. they're sunni people stuck. >> here's the thing. you know, the clips that you showed of santorum and cruz -- >> bomb everybody. >> let's bomb them. what do you do after that? it's not as simple as drops bombs. >> who do you turn the land over to? >> exactly. say you kill some key leaders. who comes in next? >> they're not talking about bombing leaders. they're talking about bombing them. >> yes, bombing them, but as we learned with the iraq war, if you depose a leader who's a bad guy, even worse things can happen. and so as bad as isis is, if santorum and cruz and rubio and all these folks are not ready to -- >> who takes over if you bomb an area? who goes in and takes the area you've just bombed? >> well, yeah -- >> the iraqi army? there's no such thing. >> right. they're throwing weapons aside and running away. >> they're saying we don't like
assad either. >> that's the complication. they make it seem as simple as dropping bombs and we put people in place. the middle east is much more complicated. >> to me, watching the clips, that knocks all of them out of the ballpark in terms of a serious contender. >> let's try politics here. vietnam war in 1968, all nixon had to say is we need new leadership. we didn't have a plan. he said he did. maybe they don't need a plan. maybe they can just attack obama personally. i don't know. thank you, michelle, thank you, bernard. michelle bernard? you're jonathan capehart. and susan page. when we return, let me finish with why i think the presidential campaign of senator bernie sanders is something to look forward to. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ take me into your darkest hour ♪ ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ yeaaaah! yeah.
you have thirty days to call and get your money back. with comcast business internet you literally can't mook a mistick. i meant to say that. switch today and get the no mistake guarantee. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight with this. personally i find the presidential campaign of senator bernie sanders which he declared today something to look forward to. i'm speaking as someone who loves the romance of politics because in addition to duking it out over important issues i think the personal is a big part of politics. especially in this country we tend to want to know the president, some sort of one-to-one connection. we pick the president, after all, not like they do in other countries where the members of parliament pick the prime ministers. so the personal matters. i have a tough for a harder reason to root for senator sanders in this fight. i like to have the democrats never forget why they have the white house today. they have it because they ran a candidate who opposed the
stupidity and horror of the iraq war. that was war was sold to the american people on a fact that wasn't a fact. the claim that saddam hussein possessed nuclear weapons. he didn't and that is something people with a conscience will have to live with. anyone who goes into this presidential election with a mind that hasn't fully absorbed this fact of deceit should not be running. they're either too stubborn or too stupid or too ideological or too personally desperate to accept the truth. the truth is we were taken last time. as senator sanders has made clear, taken by a president lacking the intellectual heft to serve, a vice president driven by a determination to kill, and by ideologues so gung-ho to send our kids into battle they should not be allowed near a keyboard again, a keyboard being their primary means of battle. too many wars, too many days and nights of killing islamic people on global television, too many people whose instinct is to exploit positions to pursue their ideological madness. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> an alarming number of
shootings this holiday weekend. >> nine people are dead, and 3 in 32 shootings in baltimore's most violent weekend in over a decade. meanwhile, tensions flared in cleveland in the wake of the acquittal of two cops who shot and killed two cleveland residents. and the doj steps in to overhaul the police department. >> today, may 26th, 2015, marks a new way of policing in the city of cleveland. plus, the 500-year flood in texas. >> as the water receded we'll start to tow cars. to get those roads open again. >> a flash flood emergency in houston as the search for survivors continues and the state surveys the damage. >> you cannot candy coat it. this is absolutely massive. >> we'll go live to texas for the latest. then bernie's running. why bernie's got more support for graham, jindal, fiorina, kasich, and santorum combined. i sit down with filmmaker martin smith to discuss his